CL 2006 - 1/4 finals

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Postby martincho » Tue Mar 21, 2006 1:43 am

NO OFFENCE TO ANYONE, please take this into consideration, but where is everybody to comment on this argument, exept for a few members that are not from Macedonia noone is saying their oppinion. So in this moment when we are correct about blaming the referees and having prove that something is wrong, no one wants to speak.

Clearly everybody want his favourite team to win, but not like this. I know that Kometal won't get a rematch but it's a shame to EHF and to handball as a sport to be witness of all of this. I know that there were more cases when breaking of rules acured and for all of this cases EHF have to get more serious and start to make some action, not only suspension of referees and delegates.

They should delegate more expirienced referees etc. Look at the referees in the Football CL, everyone who has watched some matches for sure knows the refs there. They are the same in 90% of the matches, and they are the best refs in the world.


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Postby ozi » Tue Mar 21, 2006 2:53 am

Well, first of all I did not wanna say anything on this subject because of 2 reasons. First is that I am discusted by the recent behaviour of the EHF on several fields, especialy with their treatment of Astroc, and the other is that whatever I say against that team could be interpreted as a words of an angry fan whose team was kicked out by the Astroc. But since you asked for someone's opinion, here is mine.
I saw the match, and let me satrt by saying in my opinon you have every reason to feel cheated. But if Kometal gets another match (not that it will ever happen) then Buducnost could also send a complaint about the match they played against Valencia in Spain. Cause the things that Swiss refs did clearly helped Spanish team. At that point I was furious because I thought that EHF and those refs had something against Buducnost alone, but after seeing such a bad team as Astroc in semifinal of CL, I gotta say that something is definetly wrong in this picture. Throughout the season that team has been a fav of the refs and only with their help they even passed the group. With this I also mean about their victory, believe it or not, against Hypo in Viena. I thought I would never see that things hapenineg to Hypo not to mention in Viena. Here I have to point the fact that such a good team as Byasen was out of all Europen matches this season. All feelings aside, and having seen all the matches in group C in my opinion standings in that group this year shoud have been: 1. Hypo, 2. Byaasen, 3. Buducnost, 4. Astroc.
Why Astroc is so loved by the EHF is beyond my comprehension, but if they wanted them in semifinal no matter the way they acheive that, then they should have put them immediatly there and said to the rest of the teams to compete for the remaining 3 seats.
Anyway it is sad picture to see the semifinal with such low quality team. If you can acomplish anything with those complaints, I would be more than happy, cause that would mean that there is some decency left in that organisation. But I fear that there is nothing you ar anyone else from us can do.

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Postby Mads W » Tue Mar 21, 2006 7:29 am

BoJ wrote:
Mads W wrote:About the ehf article about Slagelse, Makiavelli you are right. I think EHF wants to cover up the refs flaws and mistakes instead of just admitting to the fact that Jurack played like a hollywood star. Or else they are just blind and stupid.


It is a bit tiresome to read something like this, MadsW. We know you are a hard-core Slagelse-fan, nothing wrong with that, but you should read what a lot of the more objective fans have written. They acknowledge that Viborg was a better team on the day and fully deserved the victory. Your persistant claim that the Slagelse defeat was mainly due to Anjas suspension is as blind and stupid as what you suspect the EHF people to be. :x


Sorry to disappoint you BoJ but I have long acknowledge the fact that Viborg was the better team. But that does not mean that I have to be neutral or unable to critisize when something according to my knowgledge is wrong.

Read here:
"What happened? I felt bad for Leganger, she did not even save the worst shots, why was she not replaced ? The judges did not live up to their reputation, but it probably would not have mattered, since Viborg was a step ahead. UNfortunately every time DT fought back they were unlucky. Viborg were simply more efficient. "
This is my post stating that Viborg was the better team.
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Postby OneBYOne » Tue Mar 21, 2006 8:37 am

Mads W wrote:
BoJ wrote:
Mads W wrote:About the ehf article about Slagelse, Makiavelli you are right. I think EHF wants to cover up the refs flaws and mistakes instead of just admitting to the fact that Jurack played like a hollywood star. Or else they are just blind and stupid.


It is a bit tiresome to read something like this, MadsW. We know you are a hard-core Slagelse-fan, nothing wrong with that, but you should read what a lot of the more objective fans have written. They acknowledge that Viborg was a better team on the day and fully deserved the victory. Your persistant claim that the Slagelse defeat was mainly due to Anjas suspension is as blind and stupid as what you suspect the EHF people to be. :x


Sorry to disappoint you BoJ but I have long acknowledge the fact that Viborg was the better team. But that does not mean that I have to be neutral or unable to critisize when something according to my knowgledge is wrong.

Read here:
"What happened? I felt bad for Leganger, she did not even save the worst shots, why was she not replaced ? The judges did not live up to their reputation, but it probably would not have mattered, since Viborg was a step ahead. UNfortunately every time DT fought back they were unlucky. Viborg were simply more efficient. "
This is my post stating that Viborg was the better team.


But Leganger was replaced and Møller had a saving% on just about 0%, the VHK players had no fear of her, they still feared Leganger, that's why many of their shots went way over the goal. VHK played the best offensive and defensive, so they should have won even larger. Well I wouldn't say SDT was the unlucky team, they're 6v4 at a point where they're not far from VHK, and they'd a penalty when they're equal in score. It was more their lack of profesionalism than their luck that desided the match.

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Postby Falk » Tue Mar 21, 2006 8:59 am

BoJ and ps: Please stop your arrogance. None of us know about the relation between EHF and DHF, so you cannot deny for sure that they are very (or too) much like friends, that EHF depends on DHF, and that they cooporate very, very well.

Nor can you say whether SDT would have won if Lungu had not been suspended, - it's hypothetic. The game was very tight when it happened, and don't forget that Carmen by far has been SDT's best back court player in 2006.

Nor can you deny that Anja's suspension affects the performances of the team. Of course is does! My claim is that SDT would have won if they had had a coach on the bench, but it's still hypothetic.

So stop that BS!
Last edited by Falk on Tue Mar 21, 2006 10:46 am, edited 1 time in total.

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Postby Mads W » Tue Mar 21, 2006 9:20 am

I agree with Falk. None of us can say anything for sure but it will surely be wrong just to close your eyes from the "may be lobbyism" going on in the federations. I will remain a critic for I think a lot of strange thing is happening. And even though I acknowledge the loss of DT does not mean I have to approve it or like it. "Tab og vind med forskelligt sind, ik"
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Postby Goran » Tue Mar 21, 2006 10:30 am

Here is a start:

EHF wrote:EHF Official Statement

2005/06 Women’s Champions League Match

Kometal Gjorče Petrov Skopje (MKD) v CBM Astroc Sagunto (ESP)

Saturday 19 March 2006

Vienna, 21.03.2006 – Following a number of incidents in the closing stages of the quarter-final Women’s Champions League match between Kometal Gjorče Petrov Skopje (MKD) v CBM Astroc Sagunto (ESP) in Skopje, MKD on 19 March 2006, the EHF has initiated disciplinary procedures

An official protest against the validity of the match from the side of Kometal Gjorče Petrov Skopje has also been lodged at the EHF. This factor along with the red card given to Astroc Sagunto coach Christina Mayo and player Montserrat Diaz Puche are among the issues which will be dealt with the EHF Body of 1st Instance, in accordance with EHF Regulations.

The result of the match stands until any further official information is published by the EHF. The match was concluded, conforming with all normal EHF practises: a full match report with authorising signatures was submitted to the EHF following the match.

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Postby doomark » Tue Mar 21, 2006 10:44 am

ozi wrote:With this I also mean about their victory, believe it or not, against Hypo in Viena. I thought I would never see that things hapenineg to Hypo not to mention in Viena. Here I have to point the fact that such a good team as Byasen was out of all Europen matches this season. All feelings aside, and having seen all the matches in group C in my opinion standings in that group this year shoud have been: 1. Hypo, 2. Byaasen, 3. Buducnost, 4. Astroc.


Well, I must disagree with you on this, Ozi. I was actually there, and watched all the HYPO home games in the CL. Sagunto played in the whole game tactically PERFECT, they took Logvin out of the game, and had a good standing, aggressive defence with fast, and mostly successful counter attacks. I've never seen before such a well prepared team, and I saw already about 200 games live!

Also, I've to point out that they don't have a leader within them, but they act as TEAM, and have a brilliant goalkeeper in Eli Lopez.

About Byasen, well, being a Hungarian from origin I admire Norvegian handball a lot, but I think, their out of CL was understable, their team is very young, Haltvik didn't play the last games, hopefully they act better in the coming years.

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Postby ps_dk » Tue Mar 21, 2006 10:47 am

Falk wrote:BoJ and ps: Please stop your arrogance. None of us know about the relation between EHF and DHF, so you cannot deny for sure that they are very (or too) much like friends, that EHF depends on DHF, and that they cooporate very, very well.

Nor can you say whether SDT would have won if Lungu had not been suspended, - it's hypothetic. The game was very tight when it happened, and don't forget that Carmen by far has been the best SDT-player in 2006.

Nor can you deny that Anja's suspension affects the performances of the team. Of course is does! My claim is that SDT would have won if they had had a coach on the bench, but it's still hypothetic.

So stop that BS!


I choose to believe that you haven't read my posting thoroughly - and that it is no only a matter of blindness caused by personal sympathies... The discussion was about the old accusation of referees making wrong calls due to pressure from out federation - give me a break! I don't know about you, but I do know that the Danes have very few - if any - representatives in the EHF at the moment. And I do know, that a Danish representative would not try to make referees make out NT win a match.

The Anja-case was wrongly compared to that situation - let's keep things apart, shall we? I don't subscribe to the ususal Anja-paranoia - but as mentioned, I don't fully subscribe to the verdict either...

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Postby Mads W » Tue Mar 21, 2006 10:55 am

Goran wrote:Here is a start:

EHF wrote:EHF Official Statement

2005/06 Women’s Champions League Match

Kometal Gjorče Petrov Skopje (MKD) v CBM Astroc Sagunto (ESP)

Saturday 19 March 2006

Vienna, 21.03.2006 – Following a number of incidents in the closing stages of the quarter-final Women’s Champions League match between Kometal Gjorče Petrov Skopje (MKD) v CBM Astroc Sagunto (ESP) in Skopje, MKD on 19 March 2006, the EHF has initiated disciplinary procedures

An official protest against the validity of the match from the side of Kometal Gjorče Petrov Skopje has also been lodged at the EHF. This factor along with the red card given to Astroc Sagunto coach Christina Mayo and player Montserrat Diaz Puche are among the issues which will be dealt with the EHF Body of 1st Instance, in accordance with EHF Regulations.

The result of the match stands until any further official information is published by the EHF. The match was concluded, conforming with all normal EHF practises: a full match report with authorising signatures was submitted to the EHF following the match.

GRR this is taking the wrong development. I Hope EHF will open their eyes , if not, Kometal has to face knock in the most unfair manner.

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Semifinale

Postby doomark » Tue Mar 21, 2006 11:27 am

CL semifinale:

Sagunto - Viborg and Aalborg - Krim

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Re: Semifinale

Postby BlueSwan » Tue Mar 21, 2006 11:32 am

doomark wrote:CL semifinale:

Sagunto - Viborg and Aalborg - Krim

Briliant! That's exactly what I hoped for! Viborg and Krim are favourites IMO, but this year you never know.
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Re: Semifinale

Postby tga82 » Tue Mar 21, 2006 11:32 am

doomark wrote:CL semifinale:

Sagunto - Viborg and Aalborg - Krim


:D

This looks like the semis 3 years ago, only Ikast is replaced with Aalborg ;). Didn't go too well for the two danish teams back then.

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Postby haandballstroll » Tue Mar 21, 2006 11:34 am

Mads W wrote:
Goran wrote:Here is a start:

EHF wrote:EHF Official Statement

2005/06 Women’s Champions League Match

Kometal Gjorče Petrov Skopje (MKD) v CBM Astroc Sagunto (ESP)

Saturday 19 March 2006

Vienna, 21.03.2006 – Following a number of incidents in the closing stages of the quarter-final Women’s Champions League match between Kometal Gjorče Petrov Skopje (MKD) v CBM Astroc Sagunto (ESP) in Skopje, MKD on 19 March 2006, the EHF has initiated disciplinary procedures

An official protest against the validity of the match from the side of Kometal Gjorče Petrov Skopje has also been lodged at the EHF. This factor along with the red card given to Astroc Sagunto coach Christina Mayo and player Montserrat Diaz Puche are among the issues which will be dealt with the EHF Body of 1st Instance, in accordance with EHF Regulations.

The result of the match stands until any further official information is published by the EHF. The match was concluded, conforming with all normal EHF practises: a full match report with authorising signatures was submitted to the EHF following the match.

GRR this is taking the wrong development. I Hope EHF will open their eyes , if not, Kometal has to face knock in the most unfair manner.

I can add even more. They will find guilties out of the match. And it will
be of course referees and delegate. So, now they will accuse them in unfair red cards and all other sins in the world maybe. It will give EHF extra reasons not to replay match. Then...happy end for this fairtale... for EHF. Reason of claims is found, what else is needed? Yeah...maybe a little symbolic punishment? They will do it just to smooth everyone..

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Postby Mads W » Tue Mar 21, 2006 11:34 am

I was just about to say the exact same thing Ikastfan :) Aalborg is probably what Ikast was back then (and Dalmose was coach for Ikast back then), but their odds are definitely better than Ikasts were. Krim 02/03 was pretty frightening with Kolakovic on the playmaker position. It is like Slagelse did not win the last to years.. That is pretty much what it feels like.
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Postby BlueSwan » Tue Mar 21, 2006 11:39 am

I wouldn't rule out Viborg winning CL this year. They have been in the CL finals twice before and failed - they're extremely motivated this year, I think. Also, Viborgs form curve is definitely on the up.

I think Slagelse will win the Danish Championships - they HAVE to win something this year.
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Postby yabbagabb » Tue Mar 21, 2006 11:47 am

hey,doomark,gotcha!finally i know who the supporters of hypo are: the romanians and hungarians living in wien and austria :wink:

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Postby LokomotivaFan » Tue Mar 21, 2006 12:05 pm

I hope Viborg goest to the final. I just don't even get how Astroc managed to get this far?
Krim - Aalborg should be a great duel. Although I like the Danish team I'll have to go for our neighbours.

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Postby Falk » Tue Mar 21, 2006 12:08 pm

ps_dk wrote:[
I choose to believe that you haven't read my posting thoroughly - and that it is no only a matter of blindness caused by personal sympathies... The discussion was about the old accusation of referees making wrong calls due to pressure from out federation - give me a break!


I don't believe in those rumours, of course. I just referred to your sentence: They have absolutely no influence I thought you meant the DHF-EHF-relation in general, and that's why I protested because many factors indicate some kind of unity between the two federations. But it all seems to be due to a misunderstanding.

Besides this, I still stand by my states.

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Postby Falk » Tue Mar 21, 2006 12:15 pm

It will be VHK-Krim in the final. Dalmose doesn't know how to cope with Krim, and that's ok for me. A Danish final would not be preferable for European female handball anyway. The worst case scenario would be a repetition of CL-2003.

I don't know if I will cheer for Viborg or Krim in the finals...

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Postby Mads W » Tue Mar 21, 2006 12:30 pm

My prediction is pretty much the same: Viborg - Krim in the final. But I would not deny that we could have a Sagunto - Krim final, since Viborg has had iissues with the spanish team. If it turns out this way it will be exactly the same results as in 02/03 just with Aalborg replacing Ikast. This is really weird. Slagelse and KOmetal has been the most influencing teams last season so it is a bit of a shock to see CL semi's without them. Good to have Krim back on the scene though. I think they will win, like Slagelse they peak in the end of the season and were pretty much invinsible there. In 02/03 and 03/04 only a legendary awaymatch from Slagelse in Ljubljana stopped their winning spree.
That match I have to say is probably the best I have ever seen, the one of the highest quality handball, not nearly as intense as the olympic finals, but surely of greater quality. Slagelse anno 04 is probably the best danish club team yet. Krim though is not nearly as good as earlier.
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Postby ps_dk » Tue Mar 21, 2006 12:51 pm

Falk wrote:
ps_dk wrote:[
I choose to believe that you haven't read my posting thoroughly - and that it is no only a matter of blindness caused by personal sympathies... The discussion was about the old accusation of referees making wrong calls due to pressure from out federation - give me a break!


I don't believe in those rumours, of course. I just referred to your sentence: They have absolutely no influence I thought you meant the DHF-EHF-relation in general, and that's why I protested because many factors indicate some kind of unity between the two federations. But it all seems to be due to a misunderstanding.

Besides this, I still stand by my states.


Fair enough, I thought my first posting was clear enough but I guess it wasn't. 8:)

Of course there is some cooperation between the federations and of course they have common interests. Fundamentally, that is natural and OK (as tjey jointly have to protect the sport) but of course it shouldn't develop into some kind of brotherhood. :)

As to our opinions to Anjas verdict and suspension, I guess we should keep it to the numerous threads on DRs site :wink:

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Postby doomark » Tue Mar 21, 2006 1:19 pm

yabbagabb wrote:hey,doomark,gotcha!finally i know who the supporters of hypo are: the romanians and hungarians living in wien and austria :wink:


Yeah, so it it. Funny story to tell: I was watching the 2nd game in the group phase, it was against Sagunto. I talked to the old lady besides me, she had a "strange" accent, 10 minutes later she says she's actually from Hungary, hehe.

There are lots of old HYPO players, and their families within the visitors... Not many real hardcore handball freaks...

By the way, do we happen to "know" each other from other forum? (www.handball.hu)

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Postby Picek » Tue Mar 21, 2006 2:21 pm

martincho wrote:NO OFFENCE TO ANYONE, please take this into consideration, but where is everybody to comment on this argument, exept for a few members that are not from Macedonia noone is saying their oppinion. So in this moment when we are correct about blaming the referees and having prove that something is wrong, no one wants to speak.

I've already said my oppinion as well as zik did...
the thing is that this is a Macedonian forum, and everything we say against Kometal you will all say that we are saying is wrong and you are right...
so I decided to keep my mouth shut..
IMO better team at the moment is in the semis..
you can like it or not, you can blame the judges if it will be easier to you to accept it but that is the fact.
the end..
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Postby Picek » Tue Mar 21, 2006 2:34 pm

and let me add one more thing...
Kometal had their chances in both games...
in the first game in Spain they played a good firsth half and a lousy second half..
Astroc scored a last goal for two goal lead after Kometal had a ball for the last attack in the game...
in the second game with three minutes to go Kometal had 5 goal lead...
so in both games Kometal showed lack of concentration (remember the game against Dinamo), they simply werent concentrated enough...
they were like that throughout the whole season..
so falling out to Astroc is only players and Portnoys fault...
yes you can blame the judges, but if you look at it clearly you should really be blaming players and coach 'cause they had their chance to "kill" the opponent earlier.. but they fu*ked it up..
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