Transfers and... (09/10)

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Re: Transfers and... (09/10)

Postby masch1 » Sun May 09, 2010 10:39 pm

red and white - I agree completely

and: if Esbjerg doesn't want to lose their best players they should treat them properly. Also, it's not exactly like they are a talent factory themselves :-"



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Re: Transfers and... (09/10)

Postby jarmusch » Sun May 09, 2010 10:57 pm

red and white wrote:You don´t see Viborg HK whinning about Lunde going to Györ.
First, Györ and Viborg don’t play in the same NATIONAL LEAGUE! ;) =D>

red and white wrote:but don´t be bitter and accuse Viborg for only buying players to weaken the competition.
NO, I guess they buy them for barbeque parties! :roll: :lol:

Take Randers, Ikast and Slagelse and try to make a similar list ... Talking about the Danish league and other Danish clubs absolute best players. Yes, its absolutely legal what Viborg does and I never said it wasn’t but to say that Jessen was wrong in his post is absolutely foolish. :-"

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Re: Transfers and... (09/10)

Postby red and white » Sun May 09, 2010 11:12 pm

jarmusch wrote:
red and white wrote:You don´t see Viborg HK whinning about Lunde going to Györ.
First, Györ and Viborg don’t play in the same NATIONAL LEAGUE! ;) =D>

red and white wrote:but don´t be bitter and accuse Viborg for only buying players to weaken the competition.
NO, I guess they buy them for barbeque parties! :roll: :lol:

Take Randers, Ikast and Slagelse and try to make a similar list ... Danish League. :-"


So Slagelse bought out the competition on the international scale when they brought Leganger, Amariei, Fridrikas, Savic, etc. For me this is not any better. I do see your point though, but this is just the way things work. If a player performs well in a club, then naturally a bigger and more resourceful club would want her - thus she leaves for more profitable pastures.

Viborg also have Althaus, Acimovic, Varzaru, Kovacsicz, Reiche, Jurack and Bralo in the team. All brought to Denmark from foreign clubs, so where does that leave their strategy of systematically destroying the domestic competition. And what about your own Larvik? Aren´t they doing something a bit similar? Anyways, I see your point and also prefer that a team develops their own players. And Larvik is at least better in doing so than Viborg is. They buy up all the biggest talents in Norway whereas Viborg buy up all the fully developed players in Denmark.

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Re: Transfers and... (09/10)

Postby jarmusch » Sun May 09, 2010 11:34 pm

red and white wrote:
jarmusch wrote:
red and white wrote:You don´t see Viborg HK whinning about Lunde going to Györ.
First, Györ and Viborg don’t play in the same NATIONAL LEAGUE! ;) =D>

red and white wrote:but don´t be bitter and accuse Viborg for only buying players to weaken the competition.
NO, I guess they buy them for barbeque parties! :roll: :lol:

Take Randers, Ikast and Slagelse and try to make a similar list ... Danish League. :-"


And what about your own Larvik? Aren´t they doing something a bit similar?.


Larvik:
- Kristine Duvoldt (16-17 years, never played in the highest Norwegian division before she came to Larvik)
- Tonje Larsen (17 years, never played in the highest Norwegian division before she came to Larvik)
- Heidi Flaatnes (17 years, never played in the highest Norwegian division before she came to Larvik)
- Kristine Moldestad (never played in the highest Norwegian division before she came to Larvik)
- Jeanette Nilsen (never played in the highest Norwegian division before she came to Larvik)
- Vibeke Nesset (never played in the highest Norwegian division before she came to Larvik)
- Lene Lillevik (never played in the highest Norwegian division before she came to Larvik)
- Anette Tveter (never played in the highest Norwegian division beforeshe came to Larvik)
- Monica Vik Hansen (never played in the highest Norwegian division before she came to Larvik)
- Birgitte Sættem (19 years, never played in the highest Norwegian division before she came to Larvik)
- Katja Nyberg (19 years, never played in the highest Norwegian division before she came to Larvik)
- Kari-Mette Johansen (19 years, never played in the highest Norwegian division before she came to Larvik)
- Sara Breistøl (18 years, never played in the highest Norwegian division before she came to Larvik)
- Linn-Kristin Riegelhuth (17 years, never played in the highest Norwegian division before she came to Larvik)
- Tine Stange (17 years, never played in the highest Norwegian division before she came to Larvik)
- Heidi Løke (19 years, never played in the highest Norwegian division before she came to Larvik in 2000/1)
- Terese Pedersen (19 years, never played in the highest Norwegian division beforeshe came to Larvik)
- Mari Døvle (never played in the highest Norwegian division before she came to Larvik)
- Ellen Marie Folkvord (never played in the highest Norwegian division before she came to Larvik)
- Marianne Iversen (never played in the highest Norwegian division before she came to Larvik)
- Emily Stang Sando (never played in the highest Norwegian division before she came to Larvik)
- Pia C. Narvesen (never played in the highest Norwegian division before she came to Larvik)

All of them were teenagers and had never played in the highest league before they came to Larvik! Not bought or “stolen” from other Norwegian elite clubs as players who were already one of the best players in the Norwegian National League.

In the last 5 years (from the 2005-06 season to the 2009-10 season) they have bought 3 top-players form other Norwegian clubs:
- Karoline Dyhre Breivang (2005)
- Linn Jørum Sulland (2009)
- Nora Mørk (2009)

Before the 2010/11 season
- Katja Nyebrg come back home to Norway for free (started her Norwegian top-league carrier in Larvik)

- Linn-Kristin Riegelhuth come back home to Norway for free (started her Norwegian top-league carrier in Larvik)

- Gro Hammerseng come back home to Norway for free (her “mother club" is not part the highest league in Norway)

- Thea Mørk to Larvik from Njård (Nora’s twin sister, Njård will not play in the highest league in Norway next season)

- Amanda Kurtovic to Larvik from Nordstrand, but Larvik will most likely rent her out the their biggest rivals.

… so, it’s actually just Amanda Kurtovic they have bought from other Norwegian elite clubs, and they will as I said, most likely rent her out to their biggest rivals in the Norwegian league, Byåsen.


But one thing has to be said, Viborg HK doesn’t force any of the players in the Danish league to come to the club and play for them, all the players has their own free will and mind to do what they want (and that's good).

... but I actually just think there’s a huge difference in the way clubs like Larvik, Ikast (FCM), Randers (and actually Anja Andersen’s circus Slagelse) run their club’s compare to the way Viborg run their club. I think that’s a pretty fair thing to say. Why does that make me bitter? I think it’s great to follow (both) the Danish team Randers HK in the EHF-cup and the Danish team KIF/Vejen in the CWC-cup … and I hope that both of them win their finals too!

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Re: Transfers and... (09/10)

Postby Mixball » Mon May 10, 2010 1:35 pm

This is just the benefit of being the leader in class. Viborg have the money and are playing for titles each year, so everybody wants to be there and be a "star".
It would be wrong to hold that against Viborg imo.
I welcome your post with enthusiasm.Image

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Re: Transfers and... (09/10)

Postby meteo » Mon May 10, 2010 3:20 pm

Rannveig Haugen of Esbjerg is rumoured as a substitute for Renate Urne (pregnancy) at Leipzig
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Re: Transfers and... (09/10)

Postby MaBA_11 » Tue May 11, 2010 12:31 pm


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Re: Transfers and... (09/10)

Postby es1971 » Tue May 11, 2010 12:50 pm


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Re: Transfers and... (09/10)

Postby doomark » Tue May 11, 2010 1:47 pm

es1971 wrote: =D> That´s very good for Hypo.


1+1 year.

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Re: Transfers and... (09/10)

Postby rechi86 » Tue May 11, 2010 1:55 pm

es1971 wrote:


=D> That´s very good for Hypo.


=D> GREAT!!! Best signing so far! She will help us a lot as playmaker. 8:)
HYPO NÖ

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Re: Transfers and... (09/10)

Postby doomark » Tue May 11, 2010 2:01 pm


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Re: Transfers and... (09/10)

Postby haandballstroll » Tue May 11, 2010 4:34 pm


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Re: Transfers and... (09/10)

Postby Marco Aurelio » Tue May 11, 2010 5:22 pm


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Re: Transfers and... (09/10)

Postby Romero9 » Tue May 11, 2010 7:43 pm

Katarina Tomasevic sign contract with spanish club Bera Bera.Also one month ago Beatriz Fernandez from Alicante sign with Bera Bera as well.

Oana Soit from Elda to Itxako and Carmen Martin from Alicante to Itxako also.

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Re: Transfers and... (09/10)

Postby doomark » Tue May 11, 2010 8:22 pm

Romero9 wrote:Katarina Tomasevic sign contract with spanish club Bera Bera.Also one month ago Beatriz Fernandez from Alicante sign with Bera Bera as well.

Oana Soit from Elda to Itxako and Carmen Martin from Alicante to Itxako also.


Itxako will be STRONG next season. I´d have liked Beatriz signing with them as well. ;-) They will soon announce a further player, be surprised.

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Re: Transfers and... (09/10)

Postby haandballstroll » Tue May 11, 2010 10:37 pm

doomark wrote:
Romero9 wrote:Katarina Tomasevic sign contract with spanish club Bera Bera.Also one month ago Beatriz Fernandez from Alicante sign with Bera Bera as well.

Oana Soit from Elda to Itxako and Carmen Martin from Alicante to Itxako also.


Itxako will be STRONG next season. I´d have liked Beatriz signing with them as well. ;-) They will soon announce a further player, be surprised.

Is it Leganger? :shock:

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Re: Transfers and... (09/10)

Postby 123123 » Tue May 11, 2010 11:36 pm

People... there's absolute no problem with clubs buying good players from other clubs, that in itself does not reduce the quality of the game.

No the problem is when clubs buy other teams first line players, competitors or not, only
for these to sit on the bench. Viborg, and other clubs, have done exactly this, L. Thomsen is a brilliant example of such, and I've no doubt a fine player like her would have done much better, thereby increasing the quality of handball, had she played for a club where she'd actually get some playing time when fit.

Also, some people have a weird definition of what it means to be a competitor. A competitor is not someone who've beaten you earlier, no a competitor is someone who are in the same field as you and who you risk loosing to. Any team Viborg meets in a given season are competitors to Viborg, that goes for international as well as national. However with international the teams are met upon drawing and thereby it's not certain from the start who's a competitor, on the other hand with the league, there's no doubt. Thinking that Esbjerg, Randers, Team Tvis Holstebro and who else that might haven't beaten Viborg in ages aren't competitors have a very weird and in my opinion useless definition of said term.

Now about the actual transfer, first of all, I don't think Chebbah is the best Esbjerg player, I prefer Mangue must more, that being said, I see absolute no problem with Viborg buying Chebbah eventhough I'm an Esbjerg fan, but I hope at the very least they've bought her for the first team line up, otherwise they'd be lowering the quality of handball in general. Though I'm convinced that's exactly the case, after all, in this aspect, the financial crises may actually be a savior to handball in general. For remember, the players playing, they'll most likely keep on playing, the difference now is that no club can nearly as easy as before simply buy the best players and place them on the bench, thereby rule supreme.

And yes, Jessen was wrong, and your example was also completely misplaced Jarmuch, because it was mentioned "if you look at this case", then it makes no sense you start to look at several other cases where what Jessen say is true. Though I can't really see why it matters, we don't have any influence on this, and if we had, we have no solutions. Unless the rules somehow are made so players can't be bought simply to be on the bench, the problem will most likely return again some time in the future.
haandballstroll wrote:Is it Leganger? :shock:

That'd actually be pretty awesome.

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Re: Transfers and... (09/10)

Postby doomark » Tue May 11, 2010 11:45 pm

haandballstroll wrote:Is it Leganger? :shock:


Leganger in Spain? NO. Maybe on vacation. ;-)

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Re: Transfers and... (09/10)

Postby haandboldspiller » Wed May 12, 2010 12:15 pm

123123 wrote:... Though I can't really see why it matters, we don't have any influence on this, and if we had, we have no solutions. Unless the rules somehow are made so players can't be bought simply to be on the bench, the problem will most likely return again some time in the future.


The only solution if you want one would be some kind of salary cap, but that's raises some other concerns.

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Re: Transfers and... (09/10)

Postby 123123 » Wed May 12, 2010 12:26 pm

haandboldspiller wrote:The only solution if you want one would be some kind of salary cap, but that's raises some other concerns.


As I see it, salery cap only talks to one aspect:
The player looking at club, 3 factors to consider
#1 Playing handball (as I like it)
#2 Wage (as I need it)
#3 Club prestige (as I want to be the best)

The suggestion you offer removes the idea of wage from the equation and the player will now focus on
1) Sitting on the bench for a big club, but then be this much closer to actually play in the big tournaments, getting to be one of the best of the world.

2) Not having nearly as much challenge, but in return I get to play much more.

The players who enjoys handball for what it is would certainly go for option 2), but then again, such a player wouldn't care about the wage is my guess. Players who don't care so much about the given sport, but want to be the best of what they're doing would go for option 1 and the problem is still present.

The players who'd get attracted by a big wage would find themselves in choosing between option 1), option 2) or simply stop playing at all.

In my opinion, a better suggestion would be to influence the clubs directly upon signing players.

One method, though clearly not sufficient, would be to only let a limited amount of players be able to be in the first team, those who aren't listed as first team players can still play for the first team of course, when changing around second and first team players.
However the rule would then be that a first team player can never be bought by a teams 'second' team (anything below first team actually).

It means that Viborg could buy as many players as the rule would allow to be on the first team, teams below the first team could still get these players down on them, but in return they can only get their own youngsters up on their own team, because they can't buy players for their lower teams. With a reasonable limit of first team players, it'd make it impossible to simply empty out the market.

For getting youngsters, it'd then be completely different of course, youngsters aren't signed, they come to the club try out and can sign into the club. Contracts can first be made at a certain age, when a contract is made, this player is a first team player. Which means if they want to sign several players, they'd be forced to either sell some, or even better, loan out some players!

This way the quality would not decrease. Of course there are many problems with this, but it's to show there's no such thing as "the only solution".

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Re: Transfers and... (09/10)

Postby Didrik » Wed May 12, 2010 12:45 pm

Romero9 wrote:
Oana Soit from Elda to Itxako and Carmen Martin from Alicante to Itxako also.


Yeeee,Oana to Itxako.
In my oppinion,Itxako deserved to be in the main round of CL this season but in a group with Oltchim,Gyor and Zvezda the chances are not so high.
Anyway Itxako was and is better than Hypo and Leipzig and the same level like Dinamo or better.

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Re: Transfers and... (09/10)

Postby meteo » Wed May 12, 2010 12:49 pm

BritneyFan wrote:
Romero9 wrote:
Oana Soit from Elda to Itxako and Carmen Martin from Alicante to Itxako also.


Yeeee,Oana to Itxako.
In my oppinion,Itxako deserved to be in the main round of CL this season but in a group with Oltchim,Gyor and Zvezda the chances are not so high.
Anyway Itxako was and is better than Hypo and Leipzig and the same level like Dinamo or better.



Itxako had lack of experience and they were robbed their vicotry at Zvezda by the refs.
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Re: Transfers and... (09/10)

Postby Lazard » Wed May 12, 2010 6:40 pm

123123: Lene Thomsen was injured most of her time in Viborg, so it's kinda hard to play with injuries.. Reiche had two serious injuries as well which is why she's been missing 2+ seasons.

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Re: Transfers and... (09/10)

Postby 123123 » Wed May 12, 2010 7:27 pm

Lazard wrote:123123: Lene Thomsen was injured most of her time in Viborg, so it's kinda hard to play with injuries.. Reiche had two serious injuries as well which is why she's been missing 2+ seasons.


123123 wrote:L. Thomsen is a brilliant example of such, and I've no doubt a fine player like her would have done much better, thereby increasing the quality of handball, had she played for a club where she'd actually get some playing time when fit
Last edited by 123123 on Thu May 13, 2010 12:05 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Transfers and... (09/10)

Postby meteo » Thu May 13, 2010 10:55 am

We only have to look how Trine Troelsen developed since she left Viborg. She would never done this development at Viborg, I'm sure.

And concerning the injuries: Viborg should ask themselves, why they have so many injured players. That aren't random occasions.
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