Liga Națională (Romanian League) 2016/2017

[dydiana]

All about the Romanian League 2016/2017

The teams confirmed for this season are:

CSM București
Dunărea Brăila
SCM Craiova
HCM Roman
Corona Brașov
U Cluj
HC Zalău
Unirea Slobozia
HCM Râmnicu Vâlcea
Măgura Cisnădie
CSM Bistrița
Danubius Galați
CSM Cetate Deva

CSM Ploiești - unsure - apparently the club will block its activity and we don't know yet if another team from Divizia A will take its place in the league

[dydiana]

Also, the opening game of this season will be tomorrow during the Romanian Supercup.

SUPERCUPA ROMÂNIEI

Teams: CSM București vs. HCM Roman
Date: 3rd September 2016
Location: Sala Polivalentă, Bucharest
Time: 17.00
Live on: TVR1

[Mariusmm]

Danubius Galati kinda unsure too, political issues as well, the local council there is about to be fired and all their decisions will be cancelled, including the budget for the handball team, tho' Danubius manager Dan Pantea said that the salaries are paid and that they won't withdraw from the league.
http://www.prosport.ro/alte-sporturi/ha ... i-15648445 .
This says pretty much everything, so somehow FRH can't invite other teams into LN, Neven Hrupec and some players of Ploiesti will join Cetate Deva. Interesting to see what will happen to Udristioiu, Apetrei and Gheorghe who left Braila for Ploiesti this summer, of course I hope Ane will join us in the 2nd league, not gonna happen Probably they'll go back to Braila, if there's still place for them, some of them at least.

I don't follow Romanian politics at all so I don't know how well the new Bucharest mayor likes sport, at some point the honey will end for CSM too, so far they're doing just fine, with those massive sponsor agreements helping a lot.
Politics screwing with sports once again.

[mikh]

^ It's not even about liking sports or not. It's about political struggle (if the Mayor is from one party and the Local Council from another then everything goes to hell) and using sports teams to satisfy political ambitions and win elections. And this applies to all teams which depend almost exclusively of a local community.

Lastly, it's about poorly designed laws. Continuing to fund sports clubs exclusively from public funds will eventually lead to the collapse of all sport in Romania. We're not far form that moment and who knows, maybe we even need it to restart fresh. Until then, we're lying to ourselves that we have professional sports clubs.

[mikh]

CSM Ploiești - unsure - apparently the club will block its activity and we don't know yet if another team from Divizia A will take its place in the league

What's even worse is that yet another Romanian club is disappearing without paying their players. This is way beyond unethical. But as always, no one will pay. Oh, except for the tax payer, who'll fund another club and the ambition of another politician in another city.
It's disgusting for the players and the staff because they will never get back their money and at some point no one will want to come to play in Romania anymore.
Finally, it's a blow for the Romanian handball, because the team will not take part in the EHF Cup (where they had 2 really easy rounds). What's ridiculous is that the club was playing there due to a wild-card from the EHF. The same EHF which is preaching high standards for awarding these wild-cards (remember how French 2nd placed team didn't get the Men CL wild card, but the 3rd placed did?). So, what about those standards, EHF? How was Ploiesti accepted only to disappear 2 months later?

[HB9]

What's ridiculous is that the club was playing there due to a wild-card from the EHF. The same EHF which is preaching high standards for awarding these wild-cards (remember how French 2nd placed team didn't get the Men CL wild card, but the 3rd placed did?). So, what about those standards, EHF? How was Ploiesti accepted only to disappear 2 months later?

You can't really blame the EHF for granting a wild card which has (presumably) been requested by the club and the romanian federation. What should the EHF do? Check the finances of all the ~237 clubs taking part in the various competitions this year? Impossible.

I read somewhere that the players haven't been paid for several months - well, how about not requesting a wild card in the first place when they got so much more important issues to deal with?

[dydiana]

This says pretty much everything, so somehow FRH can't invite other teams into LN, Neven Hrupec and some players of Ploiesti will join Cetate Deva. Interesting to see what will happen to Udristioiu, Apetrei and Gheorghe who left Braila for Ploiesti this summer, of course I hope Ane will join us in the 2nd league, not gonna happen Probably they'll go back to Braila, if there's still place for them, some of them at least.

I don't follow Romanian politics at all so I don't know how well the new Bucharest mayor likes sport, at some point the honey will end for CSM too, so far they're doing just fine, with those massive sponsor agreements helping a lot.
Politics screwing with sports once again.

Its a suspect thing to me the signings of Udriștioiu,Apetrei and Gheorghe to Ploiești. I mean, if the old players were not paid for months and there was a boiling situation, how did these new players agree to sign in such insecure circumstances? Especially Udriștioiu, who is an experienced player. They must have heard about the problems there or talked with the players to be sure..so yeah,strange things.

Apparently, mayor Firea is all about sports. These past weekends they organised sports events in the park and also declared CSM girls from handball and volleyball teams "honorary citizens of Bucharest" so she must be a sport supporter. If that is true, I don't worry (yet) for CSM's fate since private sponsors contribute for the payment of several contracts of important players.

However, Diangi isn't on the new gear so I guess the sponsorship contract ended and they didn't extend it. Borsec appears in front next to Electromontaj. I believe they have this season's budget already done so that big sponsor will appear next season when they want to bring Neagu and whoever else.

[mikh]

You can't really blame the EHF for granting a wild card which has (presumably) been requested by the club and the romanian federation. What should the EHF do? Check the finances of all the ~237 clubs taking part in the various competitions this year? Impossible.

My response concerns strictly on the EHF issue.

Well... yes, I do! They could at least start with the wild card applicants. Shouldn't this be part of their attributions? Otherwise you have this kind of situations! And they are, but... just not all the time. Remember they left St. Raph-Var out of the Men's CL based on some bizarre criteria and in spite of the sport criterion.

Perhaps it's time for a licensing system. It would be the right way to move this sport forward, don't you think?

Of course it's much easier to fine and suspend (this seems to be their solution to everything - see Dutch Handball Federation) than to do due diligence. Who's going to pay this fine, for example? CSM Ploiesti will most likely disappear so no chance to get it from there. The Romanian Federation? Why? In absence of a licensing system and clear rules, they had just as much chances of detecting this problem in June as EHF did.
What are they exactly doing for these competitions, anyway? Besides naming them and sending ridiculous refs, for which you have to pay anyway? I mean, the clubs are paying for everything and when they draw a line at the end of the season, they barely break even, in the best case.

[dydiana]

SUPERCUPA ROMÂNIEI 2016

CSM București 23 (13)

Gnonsiane Niombla 5 goals - MVP
Camille Ayglon-Saurina 4 goals
Carmen Martin 3 goals
Majda Mehmedovic 3 goals
Isabelle Gullden 2 goals
Oana Manea 2 goals
Line Jorgensen 2 goals
Linnea Torstenson 1 goal
Bianca Bazaliu 1 goal

CSM Roman 17 (6)

Ana Maria Iuganu 5 goals
Oana Chitacu 3 goals
Jasna Toskovic 3 goals
Carmen Stoleru 2 goals
Iryna Glibko 2 goals
Raluca Agrigoroaei 1 goal
Lăcrămioara Cîlici 1 goal

[dydiana]

My impressions of tonight's game are good. I liked CSM's defense a lot,especially in the first half. It was a constant and efficient defense. The attack,however,can increase its potential A LOT. It was just the first game after just a few trainings(about 4) with the complete team. But the girls did pretty well and they seem like they enjoy eachother,which is nice

Probably the one who impressed me the most was Camille Ayglon,probably because she was highly contested by romanian handball fans and I didn't know what to expect. She was excellent in defense and also scored from breakthroughs and put the wings in good oportunities to score. I want her to dare more to shoot from 8-9m. Good job and keep it up
Gnonsiane Niombla was also good in defense and her attacking movement reminds me a bit of Ana Paula Rodrigues' fantasy play. Of course its just the beginning and she can gain even more confidence and improve her play,especially distance shooting.
Majda Mehmedovic started off good, as I expected her to. She is double trouble for our oponents. Not much to say,just happy to have her
Paula Ungureanu was just about 10minutes in goal, but it was enough to start the season in Top style. Paula is a joy to have and I hope she will save +40% every game, hehe.
Anastasia Lobach was the only new player who didnt impress me. She didn't manage to score when she had the chance and also wasn't too efficient in defense. But I will give her time and be patient with her. We have Oana for the most part anyway.

Can't wait for every game to come and prepare for CL battles

[John]

For Dydiana

[Mariusmm]

My hopes were shattered So it looks like Ane Udristioiu is going back to Dunarea, damn Braila have such a strong team this season, i see them clear favorites for 2nd place.

I was at a women friendly tournament so I couldn't see the Supercup, but FRH stats show that Luci Marin only had 6 assists, no goals. Did he play a Bojana-match or what ?

[Veselin]

Majda will be great in Bucharest,I am sure.Last season Majda was the best left wing in CL,I think that she can also be the best lesft wing this season.Niombla can be the first option ol left back position,she is great in defence,she has really good shoot...

[Doru Delavale]

Ayglon Saurina was more offensive than she is in national french team and ok in defence.Majda was rather efficient (50% ?) and fast on counter atack but she has some problems in defence.Lobach was only few minnutes to play , good in defence but miss the only one chance to score.Niombla was very courages in shooting and succeded to score 5 goals and also produced some brillant clever passes for her teammates.

[Doru Delavale]

To Mariusmm : Luciana Marin was used by Macedonian coach of Roman rather few minutes from the entired match and than in the end we saw Luciana ready to break out crying. Instead of penalized the players the coach must increase players selfconfident more than over in the first match....as far as Roman's team has not a lot of valuable players....Indeed Luciana's game was not of her rank she mistakes passes,shoots ....It is possible to regret her choosing (to play for Roman).

[Flavius]

Hehe...Nice profile picture, Diana!

[Silviu]

It is worth mentioning that Roman's coach Andon Boškovski spoke a decent Romanian at the time-out after just two months in Romania!

[Bo$ko]

It is worth mentioning that Roman's coach Andon Boškovski spoke a decent Romanian at the time-out after just two months in Romania!

So what? mikh told me also that I can be new DIGI Sport commentator, after few matches watched...
Incredibil!

[mikh]

I don`t see the foreigners talking that much about politics like some of you (not my friend Dy of course <3). Some mentioning in Denmark, France, etc but that`s all.

I want to remind you that at least half of the Ligue 1 teams in the French football are supported by the city halls. And probably 100% of the lower leagues sides. Or close to.

In the Hungarian football, in all the championships from 1st to 3rd, you get 200.000 euros if you only have 100% local players therefore no foreigner.

I also watched the Spanish Tour of Cycling and so many teams were from Spain, and the majority were city hall financed.

80-90% of the EU aren`t Germany or England. If I`m not wrong, Copenhagen also funded the men`s handball team for a while. Or Viborg survived with public money for some seasons.

Don't get your comment about foreign players. What, do you want Niombla to talk about the mayor of Bucharest or Neagu about that of Podgorica? That's absurd.On the other hand, we're supporters and citizens and I think it's normal to be concerned about our own money and where does it go. I think it would be irresponsible otherwise.
The players (foreign or not) should be more careful when choosing their teams though. That is, if they do want to get payed real money.

Now, about your examples. Can you give some numbers please? Namely:
1. Team by team, or on average, what is the proportion represented by public funds in Ligue 1? 80%? 90%? Or close to 10%. Can you cite the sources for the data, based on which you made this statement?

2. Can you cite the source for the information related to the Hungarian soccer league? Also, is 200k EUR 100% of the budget?

3. How do you know those teams are financed by city halls?

Comment: most of the teams you mentioned (football, cycling) have their shirts branded with the names of several other sponsors. You gave the example of VHK, but you should know that this team was one of the most successful in attracting PRIVATE sponsors (Varzaru's testimony). They even rolled in a model in which each player had its own separate sponsors paying her wage and displaying that sponsor's brand. Pretty cool, no?

Let me rephrase: do you think it is normal that a team lives EXCLUSIVELY from public money and makes no effort to attract other sponsors?

How many of the teams from the examples you cited are called: "'Club Sportiv Municipal". Do you think it is normal to have a national league of Muncipal Clubs?

I, don't. The knowledge I have about sports management is that there normally are 4 main revenue streams: tickets, television rights, advertisement, merchandise. Add to this the sponsors (yes, public money can be a part of it).
How many Romanian teams (in any sport) generate revenue? Or, just for fun, how much revenue is a Champions League winner (CSM Bucuresti) going to generate from these streams, based on last year's success? How many people were at the Polivalenta for the Supercup? How many people will there be for the CL matches, to see the trophy holder from last year?

There are solutions to our problem:
1. Discuss and pass a decent law of sponsorship. This should encourage big companies (and we have a shitload of them in Romania) to put money into sports.
2. Train sports managers, and stop promoting the Luca's of the world! We need people who know how to work with sports organisations, who understand their needs and know how to run them as a special kind of business.
3. Based on 1 and 2, gradually take distance from public money. The way I see public involvement is thus: it should allow the use of infrastructure by professional sport clubs at a decent price AND they should fully support youth sections of the clubs AND help the sports movement in general by promoting amateur competitions (not clubs!) at lower divisions (this is what French are doing, for example!).

The current model IS NOT working! What other proof do you need: Valcea, Brasov, Baia Mare (men and women), Ploiesti, Buzau, Bacau (men and women), Constanta (men and women) and I can carry on with the examples. If for the past 25 years it didn't work, shouldn't we try a different model?

[dydiana]

Hehe...Nice profile picture, Diana!

Hehe, thanks

Here is a collage from the Supercup:



And one from CSM team presentation

[dydiana]

How many people were at the Polivalenta for the Supercup? How many people will there be for the CL matches, to see the trophy holder from last year?

There are solutions to our problem:
1. Discuss and pass a decent law of sponsorship. This should encourage big companies (and we have a shitload of them in Romania) to put money into sports.

I came across the number of 2.500 spectators at the Supercup. However, our last year's CL matches at the Polivalentă gathered these numbers:

3.500 vs Lublin
3.845 vs Midtjylland
4.000 vs Gyor
4.500 vs Buducnost
4.600 vs Vardar

I think a good solution for private businesses and big international names who benefit from romanians would be to pay their taxes into a few sectors that really need infrastructure and investment: health (public hospitals, NOT the ministry), education (public schools, NOT the ministry) or sports (teams or specific segments, ex: the fencing team, gymnastics team, rowing team, NOT federations or ministry).

There are a lot of NGOs that benefit from "donations" and no one knows where the money goes. I do not support or accept these organisations. Enterprises should pay the 2% of their profit to the health,education or sports because those are the ones who need support.

They shouldn't be just encouraged, but forced to invest into what romanians need most.

[swarthofole]

see you guys this Sathurday?
if Danubius doesn't screw this competition...

[Mariusmm]

http://elenagabrielavoicu.ro/wp/acasa/
Elena Voicu, Braila GK , launched her blog today. It's great to see this type of involvement from players, it's a great way of communicating with fans, other than Facebook.
I remember that once I discovered Abbingh's blog I stood up until 2 A.M. to read all the posts, and since then I'm checking weekly for new posts, damn interesting

[heavenly]

Just a reminder for the people who still doesn't know. You can follow and watch the replays
from the Romanian League here:
https://m.youtube.com/channel/UCJlN29jkraU_V_68n9Fr5aA

[mikh]

1. It was a Digi Sport article. I guess it was translation from French. Or I listened this on a Digi show of football maybe when they discussed Ligue 1? I totally know this, 100% convinced it was an info from Digi. Maybe it was live though.

So you cannot point me to a source? A link to a video or a written article? Then allow me not to trust this. French professional football teams have little to do with public money. Trust me, French are very sensitive about these issues.

2. I cannot do that because I don`t know if it`s in the press. But I know from somebody who is involved in the lower leagues football. You can ask the Hungarians if it`s true or not. Every club without 0 foreigners, gets 200k. 1-3 leagues if I`m not wrong. This person even tries to promote this idea in Romania at meetings.

So you base your statements on rumours. Ok, let's suppose you are right about this one. I hope you understand that a first or second league team in Hungary doesn't live from 200k EUR (a year? a month? once again, you need to get your numbers straight!). On top of this money, there are other more money that come from different sources. Otherwise these team wouldn't even survive 2 months.

3. Because Copenhagen men was, everybody knows. And Viborg got money from the city hall to survive. I guess VHK also got some money from the city hall annually but that`s only a supposition.

Just saying "everybody knows" doesn't make it real
As a matter of fact you couldn't be more wrong about this one. AGH Copenhagen (this is the team we're talking about, right?) was largely funded by Jesper Nielsen and his company, Endless Jewellery. When he got out of this company, they didn't support the team anymore and the club went bankrupt. You can read more about JN here: http://www.jckonline.com/2016/02/05/end ... es-company
Soooo... NO! Their major participation was also private. It wasn't the team of the Copenhagen's municipality, so once again no CSM for you!

Regarding the Spanish teams of cycling, and they are so many, they are financed by the city halls. I listened the Eurosport commentary. Most of them even have City Hall as sponsor on the equipments. The same happens with some of the Italian.

I think you're "listening" too much to your TV. Try to do your own research.
You're factually wrong and I will prove this to you.

So until to think Romania is England, Germany or Scandinavia, please inform yourself about the whole situation in Europe.

I also recommend you that "until to speak", really DO inform yourself. All your posts are inexact, undocumented and only try to justify your point of view. While I can respect that you have an opinion about state-sponsored sport, I don't appreciate the way in which you're pushing it.

You should do a research in German, French, Spanish, Italian, even Scandinavian languages, maybe England, etc. Poland like us, Czech Republic, Hungary, etc. To present the right facts and to see that I`m not lying. The situation isn`t really perfect. I think even in Germany it`s not like in England.

Well, you're the one who's pushing errors on this forum and my time is frankly very limited. But I do believe in the value of research and exchanging ideas. So, what I suggest, is that we do this documentation together and reach a conclusion based on facts. What do you think? Are you in?

I will start with a little review of the cycling teams in La Vuelta. Please, read below! Enjoy!